159 Justice for Dave: A Poacher’s Reckoning

In this powerful episode of Warden’s Watch, Pennsylvania Game Wardens Phil Bietsch & TJ Knash share the story of a career-defining poaching case tied to the tragic death of fellow officer David Grove on Veteran’s Day 2010. From building trust to securing confessions, this case is a masterclass in investigative work and emotional resilience. Listen now to hear how justice was served, and a legacy honored.

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Here’s what we discuss:

  • Phil and TJ were classmates at the Ross Leffler School of Conservation
  • Working as neighboring officers for four years, they’ve developed a strong investigative partnership
  • Emphasis on teamwork, rhythm in interviews, and rapport-building
  • Ryan Laumann is a known habitual game law offender
  • The case ties back to the tragic death of Game Warden Dave Grove in 2010, who was murdered by Chris Johnson during a poaching incident
  • Laumann was a passenger in the vehicle
  • Laumann “just went home.”
  • Johnson is now on death row
  • Equipment and training were improved
  • Laumann received a five-year license revocation
  • A tip from a former violator turned informant via Operation Game Thief
  • “I got away with it once, I can do it again.”
  • TJ took the lead
  • Keeping emotions in check
  • “Take your time.”
  • Officers conducted surveillance near Laumann’s residence
  • Multiple deer carcasses, gut piles, and antlers
  • Officers used rapport and strategic interviewing to gain Laumann’s trust
  • Jeff Baile’s interview and interrogation techniques were critical
  • Allowing the suspect to tell their version of the story
  • Laumann eventually confesses to killing multiple deer
  • From a good case to a great case
  • “Rapport is the foundation of everything.”
  • Laumann was charged with:
    • 3 counts of illegal deer3 tagging violations
    • 3 counts of scattering high-risk parts
    • 1 over-the-bag-limit charge
  • Final penalties: 5-year hunting license revocation and $2,800 in fines

Credits

Hosts: Wayne Saunders and John Nores

Producer: Jay Ammann

Warden’s Watch logo & Design: Ashley Hannett

Research / Content Coordinator: Stacey DesRoches

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139 CJ Alexander – The Facts

For a time, Christopher “CJ” Alexander seemed to be everywhere; on the news in his native Ohio, in magazine articles, and featured on various hunting-related podcasts, telling the tale again and again of how he took a massive 18-point buck – a trophy in the running to be among the top three typical whitetails of all time.  In the end, fame turned into felony charges, and the windfall he expected became instead a whopping $43,000 in fines. Hear the facts as read by an investigator involved in the case.

See this episode on YouTube here:  https://youtu.be/w_rulXxzkKE

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Here’s what we discuss:

  • Wayne reads a note from Alexander
  • Deer becomes an internet sensation
  • Everyone loved the underdog story
  • Ohio DNR follows up
  • Information casts doubt on Alexander’s story
  • A photo and legwork begin to unravel the lies
  • Animal was poached on private property
  • Cell phone records reveal a plan
  • They name the buck Megatron
  • “Buying a house type money.”
  • Alexander shoots the buck… poorly
  • The deer is found and removed under cover of darkness
  • An elaborate cover up is put into motion
  • High expectations for big profits
  • “Can cell phone location data be used as evidence against me?”
  • Alexander pleads guilty to 14 charges
  • Deer was targeted solely for money and fame

Credits

Hosts: Wayne Saunders and John Nores

Producer: Jay Ammann

Warden’s Watch logo & Design: Ashley Hannett

Research / Content Coordinator: Stacey DesRoches

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UPDATE: CJ Alexander – CONVICTED

In late 2023, an 18-point trophy whitetail buck was taken illegally in Ohio. After an intense, high-profile investigation, several men pleaded guilty and were sentenced. The ringleader of the group also pled guilty and was sentenced this week to 90 days in jail and ordered to pay a combined $43,000 in penalties. 

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Credits

Hosts: Wayne Saunders and John Nores

Producer: Jay Ammann

Warden’s Watch logo & Design: Ashley Hannett

Research / Content Coordinator: Stacey DesRoches

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136 Operation Night Cat with Ron Arsenault & Kevin Bronson – New Hampshire

It started with a single game camera trained on an illegal bait site. Evidence recovered from that camera would ultimately lead to a lengthy multi-agency investigation, and the arrest of a ring of poachers who would trade hundreds of photos and videos of their multiple illegal harvests. In this episode, New Hampshire COs Ron Arsenault and Sgt. Kevin Bronson break down the story of “Operation Night Cat.”

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Here’s what we discuss:

  • Upcoming YouTube channel featuring NH game wardens
  • Investigation began as an illegal deer baiting case
  • Cell phone pictures reveal a protected bobcat shot at night
  • US Fish & Wildlife is brought in
  • Multiple search warrants are executed
  • A mountain of digital evidence reveals several suspects
  • Poaching activities were incredibly well-documented
  • “It was like they had a camera crew.”
  • One suspect attempts to hide a cell phone… but is foiled by K9 Winni
  • Bobcat, deer, crows, fisher, coyotes, and foxes were all targeted
  • Speed and coordination are key when executing warrants
  • The importance of preservation letters to prevent destruction of evidence
  • Poaching also occurred in other states, more charges could be pending
  • Five people were arrested, charged with over 50 night hunting violations alone
  • Felony charges were also laid
  • County attorneys were integral to these cases
  • Local sportsmen were “appalled, and wanted to help.”
  • Poaching is still prevalent and ongoing
  • “One guy may start, but it takes a team to get a win.”

Credits

Hosts: Wayne Saunders and John Nores

Producer: Jay Ammann

Warden’s Watch logo & Design: Ashley Hannett

Research / Content Coordinator: Stacey DesRoches

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North Woods Throwdown – with Eric Fluette & Kris MacCabe

It’s that time of year again and game wardens from Maine and New Hampshire are ready to hit the field in Portland, Maine on July 28th for the fourth annual North Woods Throwdown softball game! We’re joined by New Hampshire’s Eric Fluette and Kris MacCabe of Maine, taking a look back at previous games, and unveiling an exciting new streaming option so fans can tune in from anywhere and support Operation Game Thief. Come join the fun in person if you can, or grab your streaming ticket here!

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Here’s what we discuss:

  • Idea for a fundraising softball game started in Maine
  • Every game so far has been a squeaker
  • Fans shook the stadium!
  • Game bats are made in Maine
  • A ‘friendly’ rivalry
  • Extra, extra, extra innings
  • Stadium wanted to turn the lights off!
  • Streaming option will allow fans to tune in from anywhere
  • Dugout interviews and multiple cameras
  • Every kid’s dream to play in a stadium
  • Did wardens get paid for North Woods Law? (Hint: No.)
  • New Hampshire fans and giant head cutouts
  • Maine looking to tie the series
  • “We’re gonna need a bigger plaque.”

Credits

Hosts: Wayne Saunders and John Nores

Producer: Jay Ammann

Art & Design: Ashley Hannett

Research / Content Coordinator: Stacey DesRoches

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93 Col. Joel Wilkinson (Ret.) – Maine – Part II

Joel Wilkinson spent 28 years serving the state of Maine, including twelve years as Colonel of the Maine Warden Service. Now retired, Col. Wilkinson sits down with Wayne to reflect on an extraordinary career that began when he was just a teen. In this episode, we discuss his swift rise through the ranks, a television show that almost wasn’t, the challenges and rewards the outdoors can provide, and some valuable lessons learned along the way.

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Here’s what we discuss:

  • Captain to Colonel
  • Remembering Maj. Gregg Sanborn
  • Choosing quality leaders
  • Every day was an education
  • We all started in the same place
  • Empowering people through Operation Game Thief (OGT)
  • The wall of shame
  • Fundraising to offer larger rewards
  • International Wildlife Crimestoppers provided fresh ideas
  • The Interstate Wildlife Violator Compact
  • OGT trailers manned at all times; “we have to tell the stories.”
  • Blazing the North Woods Law trail
  • Turned down the original request
  • What are our fears? What are our goals?
  • It had to be authentic without being disrespectful
  • A gentlemen’s agreement
  • Popularity brought some unexpected situations
  • Ending the Maine story in the best way possible
  • Didn’t want to be seen as making money
  • The diversity educated the public
  • Inspiring kids to become game wardens
  • Passing the torch to New Hampshire
  • The North Woods Throwdown
  • Back Woods Law?!?
  • Bluefin tuna fishing takes more than skill
  • You have to do a lot of little things right
  • It’s all about respect for the animal
  • Confidence comes with experience
  • Plan to be successful
  • The abundance mentality
  • Life after retirement

Credits

Hosts: Wayne Saunders and John Nores

Producer: Jay Ammann

Art & Design: Ashley Hannett

Research / Content Coordinator: Stacey DesRoches

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079 Chad Eyler – PA Game Commission: Command Staff

In our final installment from the PA Game Commission, Wayne talks with PGC Special Permits Division chief Chad Eyler. Besides being an administrator for Pennsylvania’s Operation Game Thief program and the architect of one of the most successful wildlife crime reporting lines in the US, he also has the unique perspective of having worked for all three state conservation agencies. In this episode, Chad explains the formation, structure, and funding of the agency, the Deputy Game Warden program, and much more.

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Here’s what we discuss:

  • A good game warden story
  • Leader in wildlife forensics
  • Forensics skills can apply to all aspects of the job
  • Formation of the Game Commission
  • Refuges and ranges
  • Game lands help fund the agency
  • Low-cost hunting and trapping licenses
  • Explaining the Deputy Warden program
  • Almost a hobby
  • Hundreds of thousands of hunters
  • Keeping the agency moving forward
  • Issued a typewriter and a revolver
  • Refocusing priorities and adapting with the times
  • “It literally takes my breath away”

Credits

Hosts: Wayne Saunders and John Nores

Producer: Jay Ammann

Content Coordinator: Stacey DesRoches

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074 The Ellises – Father & Son Game Wardens

Lee Ellis knew he wanted to be a South Carolina game warden from the time he was a teenager. His son Hunter considered a few different occupations before realizing his destiny was in his father’s footsteps. Listen as they discuss their respective career paths, the unique benefits and challenges of growing up in a game warden family, and the changes they’ve each seen through the years. They may be Captain and Officer, but at the end of the day, they’re family. 

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Here’s what we discuss:

  • Not the first South Carolina father/son warden team
  • Hunter always wanted to be a game warden… sort of
  • Not a lot of dads can say they work with their kids
  • Perseverance paid off for Lee
  • The Swiss army knife of law enforcement
  • Shrimp baiting
  • It’s all about preserving nature
  • Education and enforcement go hand in hand
  • Take One Make One program
  • Non-traditional law enforcement role; it’s a lifestyle, not a job
  • Family support is essential
  • Cat and mouse
  • Everyone knows the game warden
  • Adapt using technology, but keep your roots
  • How to catch an alligator
  • President of International Wildlife Crimestoppers
  • Hosting the 2021 IWC conference
  • Telling wardens’ stories is key
  • Promoting positive interactions
  • Encouraging the next generation

073 Scott Gray – Reformed Poacher

Wayne, Lt. Jim Kneeland, and reformed poacher Scott Gray gather to discuss Scott’s poaching scheme that started in the 1990s. He took poaching to a new level. He practiced at home to see how how quiet he could make his weapons, buried a freezer in his shed, and believe it or not, once took the warden’s entry test. Wayne discusses with Scott and Lt. Kneeland, Scott’s tactics, preparation, and to what extent he took his illegal craft, and how it all changed one day.

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072 Benny Richards – Texas

Benny Richards is a former Game Warden for Hunt County, Texas. Richards worked for over 25 years for the Texas Department of Parks and Wildlife, and is well known for his appearances on “Lone Star Law”. During his time as a warden, he earned accomplishments such as the Texas Parks and Wildlife Officer of the Year (2015) and the Shikar-Safari International Wildlife Officer of the year award. In this episode, Wayne interviews Benny on his role as a Texas warden and the stories of “Lone Star Law”.

Our Sponsors: 

Thin Green Line Podcast

Sovereign Sportsman Solutions

“A Cowboy in the Woods” Book

Hunt of a Lifetime

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International Wildlife Crime Stoppers

Here’s What We Discuss:

  • “Tales of a Texas Game Warden” by Benny Richards
  • Virtual book signing: December 2nd at 7:00pm
  • Recently retired
  • Everything is real
  • New season of Lone Star Law is coming
  • Game warden and peace officer
  • First interaction with a game warden
  • Different trails
  • Cocaine in the taxi cab
  • Dirty deeds under the cover of dark
  • Trip to jail makes them pass out
  • Phones change everything
  • Moving the bucket
  • Watch to get evidence
  • Wardens answer more than just outdoor calls
  • Housing development
  • Landowner permission
  • Diverse environment 
  • Upcoming children’s book
  • Moose antler