David Grove – Warden's Watch

In this powerful episode of Warden’s Watch, Pennsylvania Game Wardens Phil Bietsch & TJ Knash share the story of a career-defining poaching case tied to the tragic death of fellow officer David Grove on Veteran’s Day 2010. From building trust to securing confessions, this case is a masterclass in investigative work and emotional resilience. Listen now to hear how justice was served, and a legacy honored.

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Here’s what we discuss:

Phil and TJ were classmates at the Ross Leffler School of Conservation
Working as neighboring officers for four years, they’ve developed a strong investigative partnership
Emphasis on teamwork, rhythm in interviews, and rapport-building
Ryan Laumann is a known habitual game law offender
The case ties back to the tragic death of Game Warden Dave Grove in 2010, who was murdered by Chris Johnson during a poaching incident
Laumann was a passenger in the vehicle
Laumann “just went home.”
Johnson is now on death row
Equipment and training were improved
Laumann received a five-year license revocation
A tip from a former violator turned informant via Operation Game Thief
“I got away with it once, I can do it again.”
TJ took the lead
Keeping emotions in check
“Take your time.”
Officers conducted surveillance near Laumann’s residence
Multiple deer carcasses, gut piles, and antlers
Officers used rapport and strategic interviewing to gain Laumann’s trust
Jeff Baile’s interview and interrogation techniques were critical
Allowing the suspect to tell their version of the story
Laumann eventually confesses to killing multiple deer
From a good case to a great case
“Rapport is the foundation of everything.”
Laumann was charged with:
- 3 counts of illegal deer3 tagging violations
- 3 counts of scattering high-risk parts
- 1 over-the-bag-limit charge
Final penalties: 5-year hunting license revocation and $2,800 in fines

Credits

Hosts: Wayne Saunders and John Nores

Producer: Jay Ammann

Warden’s Watch logo & Design: Ashley Hannett

Research / Content Coordinator: Stacey DesRoches

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Pennsylvania Wildlife Conservation Officer David Grove was known for his infectious smile, his deep faith, and his professionalism and commitment to the people and wildlife of his home state. On a quiet Veterans Day evening in 2010, Officer Grove was arresting a poacher when the suspect – a convicted felon – pulled a gun from his waistband and began firing. Despite having been shot, Officer Grove continued to return fire until he was fatally struck. He was 31 years old. Retired PGC Deputy Executive Director Thomas Grohol shares his memories of the incident, the aftermath, and the continuing legacy of an exemplary officer.

“It is not how these officers died that made them heroes; it is how they lived.” ~ National Law Enforcement Memorial, Washington, DC