177 The Creek Kings Case – With Mark Williams

What happens when modern poaching meets social media fame? Ohio Wildlife Officer Mark Williams shares the story of the Creek Kings case, an investigation that exposed years of illegal deer hunting hidden behind a successful YouTube channel. What began with a park visitor finding hunting equipment in a metro park quickly grew into a massive digital investigation involving trail cameras, cell phone data, deleted evidence, fake hunting locations, sponsorship money, and some very ambitious trophy hunters. Mark takes us through the case from the first clue to the final sentencing and explains how technology helped both the offenders and the officers who caught them.

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Here’s what we discuss:

  • Meet Ohio Wildlife Officer Mark Williams
  • Why Mark calls this a “21st century poaching case”
  • The rise of wildlife commercialization through social media
  • The Creek Kings Outdoors YouTube channel
  • Hunting for views, sponsorships, and online fame
  • A park visitor discovers hunting equipment in Three Creeks Metro Park
  • Metro Park Ranger Stefan Brook gets involved
  • Building partnerships before a major case pays off
  • Trail cameras, tree stands, and ATV trails in the park
  • Investigators identify two cousins as suspects
  • Zach Bethel and Justin Booth become the focus
  • How cellular trail cameras changed the investigation
  • “It would have been impossible for them to do what they did without technology, and impossible for us to stop them without ours.”
  • Rangers document repeated hunting activity
  • Officers begin monitoring the YouTube channel
  • Hunting equipment, filming gear, and surveillance cameras
  • The challenge of predicting suspect movements
  • Rangers catch the suspects entering the park
  • Excuses about lost dogs and accidental hunting
  • Contradictions begin piling up
  • Hidden cameras and deleted messages
  • Evidence tampering enters the picture
  • “The only lesson they learned was not to hunt it with equipment they couldn’t carry out.”
  • Search warrants for phones and digital devices
  • Suspects underestimate the investigation
  • Recovering deleted information
  • Discovering years of illegal activity
  • Investigators realize the case is much bigger than expected
  • Illegal deer linked to YouTube content
  • Prodigy, Turkeyfoot, Wide 10, and other named bucks
  • Hunting places they had no permission to hunt
  • Recovering deer across multiple properties
  • The fake Kentucky hunts
  • Deer allegedly harvested in Kentucky were actually killed in Ohio
  • Manipulating videos to create a false story
  • Property owners misled by the suspects
  • Sponsors unknowingly backing illegal hunting content
  • “These guys made tens of thousands in material and monetary wealth from illegally killing wildlife.”
  • Investigators spend months analyzing phones, computers, drones, and photos
  • Five years of documented activity uncovered
  • The Metro Park becomes their “cheat code”
  • Conversations about avoiding detection
  • Planning future fake Kentucky hunts
  • Using drones to locate deer
  • Hunting-related drone violations
  • Evidence from podcasts, texts, videos, and photos
  • How social media became a treasure trove of evidence
  • The decision to focus on the strongest charges
  • Cooperation between wildlife officers, park rangers, prosecutors, and tech specialists
  • 76 total charges filed
  • Plea agreements and guilty pleas
  • Over $29,000 in wildlife restitution
  • More than $37,000 in total financial penalties
  • Nine days of jail time
  • Five-year revocation of hunting, fishing, and trapping privileges
  • Wildlife Violator Compact consequences across North America
  • Ban from Metro Parks and Alum Creek State Park
  • Restrictions on possessing hunting equipment
  • “They treated it like their own private preserve.”
  • The damage done to sponsors and supporters
  • Hunters who felt betrayed by the channel
  • The dangers of chasing fame and online success
  • Lessons for conservation officers facing digital-era wildlife crimes
  • Why Mark believes more cases like this are coming
  • The importance of protecting public resources
  • Final thoughts on greed, accountability, and conservation

Credits

Hosts: Wayne Saunders and John Nores

Producer: Jay Ammann

Warden’s Watch logo & Design: Ashley Hannett

Research / Content Coordinator: Stacey DesRoches

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171 Kevin & Kathy Behr – Survivors With Purpose

On this episode of Warden’s Watch, we sit down again with Ohio’s Kevin Behr – this time joined by his wife, Kathy – to talk about survival, recovery, and the purpose they’ve found after Kevin was shot in the line of duty. Recorded at the International Game Warden Conference, this conversation goes beyond the incident itself and into what happens after – for officers, spouses, families, and anyone navigating a critical incident. A powerful update, an honest conversation, and a reminder that survival comes with responsibility – and that even in the worst moments, purpose can still be found.

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Here’s what we discuss:

  • Kathy’s spouse‑focused training on critical incidents – and why she created it
  • “You don’t realize what you don’t have in place until it’s happening”
  • Navigating power of attorney, medical decisions, and legal realities mid‑crisis
  • Being Kevin’s voice while he was unconscious – medically and legally
  • Why law enforcement statements on medication can be problematic in court
  • The emotional toll on spouses and kids when an officer is critically injured
  • Kevin seeing purpose in survival: “We did – they didn’t, so we have work to do.”
  • Turning trauma into something meaningful, even when healing isn’t linear
  • Stubbornness as a survival trait (and yes, it helped)
  • Brain injury recovery, negativity, and recognizing the long road back
  • Living with permanent change and reframing it positively
  • “Any fool can get through this – I’m living proof.”
  • The power of humor in trauma recovery
  • Doctors who refuse to give up: “Nobody quits on my team. Not even you.”
  • Finding a new purpose when the old one can’t exist anymore
  • How Kevin’s experience now helps train officers, trauma teams, and agencies
  • The ripple effect of sharing hard truths so others can prepare
  • Sidebar conversations that matter more than the main stage
  • Why laughing, crying, and telling the story all matter
  • “Everybody’s the main character in their own story.”
  • Surviving isn’t the end – it’s the beginning of responsibility
  • Kevin and Kathy as resources for those walking similar paths
  • Miracles along the way – and choosing to keep them moving forward

Credits

Hosts: Wayne Saunders and John Nores

Producer: Jay Ammann

Warden’s Watch logo & Design: Ashley Hannett

Research / Content Coordinator: Stacey DesRoches

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153 Murder in Morgan County – with Kirk Kiefer

In July 2021, a peaceful family camping trip in Ohio’s vast Appalachian Hills Wilderness Area turned into a chilling crime scene. Two lives were lost, and a community was shaken. In this gripping episode, we sit down with ODNR Investigator Kirk Kiefer to uncover the layers of a complex and haunting double homicide.

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Here’s what we discuss:

  • Investigator Keifer appeared in a previous episode
  • International Game Warden Association Officer of the Year
  • ODNR’s nomination submission
  • The ‘ginseng detective’
  • Nomination was kept secret!
  • A missing persons / suspicious activity report on State land
  • The couple’s phones – and daughter – were left behind
  • Suspect claimed the couple had gone to CA and were expected back
  • A concerned camper contacted ODNR
  • The couple’s license plate had recently been checked on the Interstate
  • Suspect had a ‘tell.’
  • “He was convinced I was a human lie detector.”
  • The sudden confession: “I killed ‘em.”
  • Killings had happened 13 days prior
  • Suspect led investigators to the bodies
  • Defense attorney admitted there was no defense to be mounted
  • Claimed he was ‘rescuing’ the child
  • Body cameras were used in case the suspect did not testify
  • Appeared to feel badly about killing the female.
  • “Sometimes there is no ‘why’.”
  • Never expected to be investigating homicide
  • Attended the couple’s memorial services
  • Inter-agency cooperation was key to this case
  • Killer received two automatic life terms with no parole

Credits

Hosts: Wayne Saunders and John Nores

Producer: Jay Ammann

Warden’s Watch logo & Design: Ashley Hannett

Research / Content Coordinator: Stacey DesRoches

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152 – 2025 International Game Warden Conference

For the third time, we were able to sit down at the International Game Warden Conference held this year in Erie, Pennsylvania, with Game Warden Chris Gilkey of Ohio, Game Warden Kris McCabe of the Maine Warden Service, myself, Wayne Saunders, host of the Warden’s Watch podcast, and Game Warden Andy Hueser of the Pennsylvania Game Commission who was also instrumental in the organization and implementation of this year’s conference. Tune in for a lively conversation!

141 CJ Alexander – The Podcasters

Wrapping up the CJ Alexander series, we sit down with Christian Babcock and Jake Gaylord, the dynamic duo behind the popular Hunters Advantage podcast. In early 2024, Alexander made a memorable appearance on their podcast, spinning his well-worn underdog tale of an unbelievably lucky trophy buck – a tale that took a dramatic turn when it was later revealed he had already confessed to poaching it.  

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Here’s what we discuss:

  • Christian posts, then removes, a video questioning the Alexander buck
  • Hunters Advantage podcast invites Alexander to tell his story
  • All large deer taken can be controversial
  • Alexander tells the hosts a convincing enough tale
  • “I came out of it with kind of an uneasy feeling.”
  • Alexander had appeared on the podcast after confessing to game wardens
  • The court-ordered apology letter
  • Public opinion was split
  • Misdemeanor charges moved to felony levels
  • Podcast appearances could have been used in sentencing
  • Technology makes poaching hard to hide
  • Antlers are like fingerprints
  • Podcast generated both positive and negative feedback
  • “We’re just common men with a nice microphone.”

Credits

Hosts: Wayne Saunders and John Nores

Producer: Jay Ammann

Warden’s Watch logo & Design: Ashley Hannett

Research / Content Coordinator: Stacey DesRoches

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140 CJ Alexander – The Wardens

Picking up from our last episode, we sit down with two of the Ohio game wardens responsible for bringing this case before the court. Wildlife Officers Isaiah Gifford and Matt Roberts outline the meticulous effort and tiny details that led to the indictment and ultimate guilty plea of the now-infamous poacher, CJ Alexander.

See this episode on YouTube here: EP140 CJ Alexander Buck The Officer’s interview

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Here’s what we discuss:

  • Investigation began as a typical follow up when a trophy animal is taken
  • Alexander spins his tale
  • Wildlife officers visit the alleged kill site
  • The staged site seems unusual, but mostly believable
  • A video arrives showing the animal 10 miles away
  • Wardens take a closer look
  • A bait pile and other evidence is found
  • Trail camera photos show the deer in the area
  • A grid search locates more evidence
  • Tiny details in a photo confirm officers’ suspicions
  • “There’s a knife – and there’s another knife!”
  • Alexander admits lying about the site
  • Antlers had already been sold, and are confiscated
  • Foliage at the supposed kill site does not match photos
  • Search warrants solidify the evidence
  • The poacher continues to make false claims publicly
  • Charges include tampering with evidence and theft by deception
  • Investigators meticulously pore through the evidence
  • “At the end of the day, we knew what we had.”
  • An Ohio record for restitution

Credits

Hosts: Wayne Saunders and John Nores

Producer: Jay Ammann

Warden’s Watch logo & Design: Ashley Hannett

Research / Content Coordinator: Stacey DesRoches

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139 CJ Alexander – The Facts

For a time, Christopher “CJ” Alexander seemed to be everywhere; on the news in his native Ohio, in magazine articles, and featured on various hunting-related podcasts, telling the tale again and again of how he took a massive 18-point buck – a trophy in the running to be among the top three typical whitetails of all time.  In the end, fame turned into felony charges, and the windfall he expected became instead a whopping $43,000 in fines. Hear the facts as read by an investigator involved in the case.

See this episode on YouTube here:  https://youtu.be/w_rulXxzkKE

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Here’s what we discuss:

  • Wayne reads a note from Alexander
  • Deer becomes an internet sensation
  • Everyone loved the underdog story
  • Ohio DNR follows up
  • Information casts doubt on Alexander’s story
  • A photo and legwork begin to unravel the lies
  • Animal was poached on private property
  • Cell phone records reveal a plan
  • They name the buck Megatron
  • “Buying a house type money.”
  • Alexander shoots the buck… poorly
  • The deer is found and removed under cover of darkness
  • An elaborate cover up is put into motion
  • High expectations for big profits
  • “Can cell phone location data be used as evidence against me?”
  • Alexander pleads guilty to 14 charges
  • Deer was targeted solely for money and fame

Credits

Hosts: Wayne Saunders and John Nores

Producer: Jay Ammann

Warden’s Watch logo & Design: Ashley Hannett

Research / Content Coordinator: Stacey DesRoches

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UPDATE: CJ Alexander – CONVICTED

In late 2023, an 18-point trophy whitetail buck was taken illegally in Ohio. After an intense, high-profile investigation, several men pleaded guilty and were sentenced. The ringleader of the group also pled guilty and was sentenced this week to 90 days in jail and ordered to pay a combined $43,000 in penalties. 

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Credits

Hosts: Wayne Saunders and John Nores

Producer: Jay Ammann

Warden’s Watch logo & Design: Ashley Hannett

Research / Content Coordinator: Stacey DesRoches

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124 Kandy Klosterman – Ohio

From humble beginnings fishing the tranquil lakes of Ohio to her current position as Chief of Law Enforcement for the Ohio Department of Natural Resources Wildlife Division, Kandy Klosterman is no stranger to blazing trails. As the state’s pioneering female wildlife investigator, she spearheaded numerous high-profile cases, earning multiple accolades along the way – including the prestigious Guy Bradley Award for lifetime contributions to wildlife law enforcement. With a career spanning nearly three decades, her commitment to safeguarding Ohio’s natural resources, mentoring the next generation of officers, and championing the inclusion of women in wildlife conservation sets the standard for excellence. We can’t wait to see what she does next!

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Here’s what we discuss:

  • Accepted Chief of Law Enforcement position in June 2023
  • Grew up fishing and hunting with her grandfather in Ohio
  • Mentors are essential
  • “You’re not born with a shotgun or fishing rod in your hand.”
  • Worked mowing grass on ODNR property
  • “I want to be a wildlife officer!”
  • Volunteering led to a part-time position
  • Only woman in the Academy in 1998
  • Mentoring the next generation of officers
  • All staff take part in educating new cadets
  • 1920s saw the first female wildlife officer in Ohio
  • 15 female officers in 120 years, but more all the time
  • Early career involved several areas of the state
  • Wildlife investigator for 21 years
  • Adventures in undercover work
  • Ohio’s Women Officers of Wildlife group
  • Female Wildlife Officers in OH wore men’s uniforms until the mid-90s
  • Ohio DNR organization and command structure
  • Nearly three-decade career
  • Statewide working groups: “I don’t have to know everything.”
  • Leveraging drone capabilities
  • Plans to expand Search & Rescue
  • Accreditation program for outfitters and guides
  • A fraudulent interstate outfitter case
  • Encouraging the next generation of female WOs
  • “Someone taught you, now you need to teach them.”
  • Working with cadets brings you back to your roots

Credits

Hosts: Wayne Saunders and John Nores

Producer: Jay Ammann

Art & Design: Ashley Hannett

Research / Content Coordinator: Stacey DesRoches

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116 Deadly Harvest – With Kevin Behr

In Appalachian Ohio and beyond, ginseng hunting is a centuries-old tradition. Prized for its medicinal value and prestige, American ginseng was one of America’s first exports to the Far East. Today, highly regulated but harvested to near extinction, its value has only increased, setting the stage for a black market that often results in arrests, prison time, and tragedy.

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Here’s what we discuss:

  • Kevin’s ongoing recovery and recent activities
  • Investigation began in Ohio in 2012, when a family reported an overdue hiker
  • Bobby Joe Grubbs had been dropped off for a walk, but did not return
  • Grubbs was known to police
  • Sherrif’s office pinged cell phone
  • Phone was located on 87-year-old Joseph Kutter’s property
  • Property owner gave police permission to search, but nothing was found
  • Cell phone had dialed 911 but disconnected
  • Kutter’s property featured a meticulously tended ginseng patch
  • A second search was launched using cadaver dogs
  • Dogs alerted on a loader bucket
  • Kutter immediately confessed to shooting Grubbs
  • Claimed Grubbs was stealing ginseng
  • A confrontation ensued and Kutter fired his weapon
  • Kutter then moved the body twice in the following days
  • Autopsy revealed ginseng in Grubbs’ pockets – and a business card
  • Grubbs had called family to report finding “the mother lode” of ginseng
  • Kutter pled guilty to voluntary manslaughter
  • Case highlights the mindsets of both ginseng growers and poachers
  • Easy money from ginseng often funds drug habits
  • Ginseng hunting (and poaching) can be a way of life passed down through generations
  • Black market is unnervingly similar to the drug trade

Credits

Hosts: Wayne Saunders and John Nores

Producer: Jay Ammann

Art & Design: Ashley Hannett

Research / Content Coordinator: Stacey DesRoches

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