068 The Colebrook Murders Part IV – Featuring Counselor Paula Booth

Counselor Paula Booth has been working with law enforcement officers and other clients for over 35 years with the state of New Hampshire. Her unique knowledge of critical incidents and trauma response has made her a valuable asset to many agencies. She is also the director for the New Hampshire Employee Assistant Program. Paula has a masters degree in clinical social work from Boston University, is a member of the National Academy of Certified Social Workers, and is nationally certified as an employee assistance professional. Additionally, she has served as the president of the Grant State employee assistant program. Paula works on the governor and attorney general’s commission on domestic violence, and is an advisor to the state government’s decision makers. Her lectures at conferences, community events, and state sponsored events are well renowned. To Wayne, Paula Booth was his counselor after the critical incident that took place in Colebook in which he was shot.

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“A Cowboy in the Woods” Book

Hunt of a Lifetime

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Wildlife Heritage Foundation of NH

International Wildlife Crime Stoppers

Here’s What We Discuss:

  • Introduction to Paula Booth
  • Counseling is very different in today’s world
  • Wayne’s breaking point
  • Counseling is for everyone
  • Everyone has a critical incident in their life
  • Healthy people get help
  • Education on counseling to law enforcement
  • We ask for help all the time, why not this?
  • Affects officers, family members, peers
  • Academy program: stress management in law enforcement
  • Traumatic experience from those that were on vacation
  • Critical incident tools
  • Simple, briefs directives
  • Eat something simple
  • Don’t fill the silence
  • Look into programs
  • Supervisors and peers watch you
  • Don’t use a cookie cutter approach
  • Connection is important
  • I’ve got the best job in the world
  • Make it palatable
  • If I didn’t have counseling, I wouldn’t have finished my career
  • Horrible week for New Hampshire
  • Approach it from a problem solving perspective
  • Make the appointment, you can always cancel it
  • Give and take
  • Uniform represents so much
  • Partners and supporters take the journey too

067 The Colebrook Murders Part III – Featuring Kevin Jordan

Colonel Kevin Jordan has worked for the New Hampshire Department of Fish and Game for over 20 years. After the Colebrook Murders, he became a critical incident specialist. In this episode, Wayne discusses the Colebrook Murders with Colonel Jordan and how each of them experienced the situation.  

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Hunt of a Lifetime

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International Wildlife Crime Stoppers

Here’s What We Discuss:

  • Field day in Quebec
  • Weren’t aware two were murdered
  • 5 crime scenes, many different units
  • Couldn’t talk on the radio, too much chatter
  • I could hear Wayne screaming
  • Went to grab two deer rifles, raced to confront
  • John had his fingers embedded in my dash as I went 100 mph
  • I was livid he shot you, I wanted to kill him
  • The troopers had a look about them
  • Dispatchers were crying on the radio
  • He went home to change and shave
  • Laying across the dash, looked like he committed suicide
  • Both shoot at the same time; Drega wearing campaign hat
  • If you engage him, you’ll have to kill him
  • I know what type of guy I am now
  • You can train someone, but you don’t know how they’ll react in fight or flight
  • He was on the bank; changed our plan
  • 98 shots fired
  • Drega was dead 
  • I decided I needed a cigarette
  • Both sides of the road were lined with cruisers
  • I thought I was gonna get fired
  • His house had bombs in it
  • Ran to the bathroom and threw up
  • Some will defend Drega; there will be funerals
  • Went to visit Wayne in a packed cruiser
  • Cheers when Wayne came back; brought to tears
  • Ordered to go to counseling
  • New equipment after the event

066 The Colebrook Murders Part II: My Badge Saved My Life

In this episode our two hosts become an interviewer and an interviewee. In 1997, a rogue gunman began a violent rampage in the town of Colebrook. One of the responding officers, Warden Wayne Saunders of New Hampshire was injured in an attempt to apprehend the subject. The badge he wore on that day deflected the bullet shot by the suspect and saved his life. In this episode Wayne tells his personal account of that day and how it affected his life.

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Thin Green Line Podcast

Sovereign Sportsman Solutions

“A Cowboy in the Woods” Book

Hunt of a Lifetime

Maine’s Operation Game Thief

Wildlife Heritage Foundation of NH

International Wildlife Crime Stoppers

Here’s What We Discuss:

  • Episode dedicated to Senior Corporal Jeff Neal of Hope, Arkansas
  • Dedicated to Scott Phillips and Leslie Lord, New Hampshire State Police
  • Survived a critical incident in a small town
  • A regular day with a field day the next day
  • Report of a stolen cruiser, possibly by a kid
  • “Turn off your blue lights”
  • Jurisdictional issues in mind
  • Dust hanging under a bridge pass
  • Man with a campaign hat pointing a gun 15 yards away
  • Cover and concealment
  • Everything was in slow motion, yelled at people in a restaurant to leave 
  • Backed up slow, then fast into a tree
  • I didn’t know what was going on
  • Center of the badge was shot off
  • Ricochet of the 7 rounds
  • Don’t my boots; sorry I wrecked the cruiser
  • Shredded my bicep, scarred to this day
  • Found out what happened from the news
  • Staying in the fight even when injured
  • From the hospital to funerals 
  • Brothers holding me up
  • Improving communication, switched rifles
  • New York response team
  • It takes a horrible incident for improvement
  • The only woman that made me cry: physical therapist breaking down scar tissue
  • Negative comments made me transfer
  • Critical incident fallout; learning experience
  • Worse for your partner to get shot than to be the victim
  • Physical and mental pain
  • I always wanted to be the cowboy in the woods, no one would take that for me
  • Brought game wardens to state police with shooting pay support
  • We’re always on duty
  • More tools available now
  • Pack of wardens
  • Usually not next to cruiser
  • People hide and hide things in the woods
  • Educate the public on what we go through

065 The Colebrook Murders Part I – Ft. Richard Adams Carey

Richard Carey is the author of the book “In That Evil Day” in which he discusses the events of the violent 1997 shooting in Colebrook, New Hampshire in which Wayne Sanders was shot. Richard grew up in Connecticut and attended Harvard. He moved around the country while writing various books that are acclaimed by The New York Times, Alaska Magazine, and more. In this interview, Carry explains his background, research for the book, the community around Colebrook, and much more.

Our Sponsors: 

Thin Green Line Podcast

Sovereign Sportsman Solutions

“A Cowboy in the Woods” Book

Hunt of a Lifetime

Maine’s Operation Game Thief

Wildlife Heritage Foundation of NH

International Wildlife Crime Stoppers

Here’s What We Discuss:

  • The Colebrook Murders
  • Putting the puzzle pieces together
  • Not enough exposure on the event
  • Listings in a telephone book
  • Went about the book stupidly
  • Battle between burying the incident and opening up
  • Expected to “suck it up” after incidents
  • Challenge: freedom of information
  • Dissecting the documents; generosity of agencies
  • No sense of competition in law enforcement
  • Not a typical true crime book
  • Mindset of those in the community
  • Flirtations with militia groups
  • National problem with little reporting
  • Breakdown of the incident
  • The good out of the incident
  • Civilian heroes 
  • Outsider looking in to insider looking in
  • Book title

064 Lonnie Sushil – Florida

Lonnie Sushil is a game warden with the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission (SA), and is the Commander of the SA Special Operations Group (SOG). Florida’s SOG group was created after 9/11 and focuses on homeland security as well as public service. Lonnie commands 14 operators in the alpha south region of the state. 

Our Sponsors: 

Thin Green Line Podcast

Sovereign Sportsman Solutions

“A Cowboy in the Woods” Book

Hunt of a Lifetime

Maine’s Operation Game Thief

Wildlife Heritage Foundation of NH

International Wildlife Crime Stoppers

Here’s What We Discuss:

  • Merging of Thin Green Line into Warden’s Watch
  • Lonnie’s background
  • Creation of SOG in Florida
  • Duties of the group
  • Diversity of warden training
  • Ecosystem differences within Florida
  • SOG is a collateral duty
  • Collaborative training
  • Picking out the oddities
  • Academy and training
  • Female officers
  • Assess people up front

044 John Nores and the California Bear Poaching Case

From the Nancy Foley podcast stemmed a conversation with John about a bear poaching case that needed exploration.  John and Wayne discuss a case in California that started as a small time investigation of bear poaching that lead to convictions on numerous game and firearm violations. The case expanded into a large scale illegal guiding service and John went undercover to crack the case wide open.

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Hunt of a Lifetime

Maine’s Operation Game Thief

NH Wildlife Heritage

International Wildlife Crime Stoppers

  • The California Case
  • The Fires, The Back Country is Burning
  • Cartel Marijuana Operation A Holy Grail Wildlife Case
  • Wild Hogs to Black Pair Poaching
  • Chipper, a Career Poacher, and a Cartel Grow
  • No Guide License, with a Business Card
  • Anxious to Make that Case, Timing is Everything
  • Patience, Let the Case Develop
  • Covert Surveillance
  • An Undercover Bear Hunt
  • More and More Accomplices
  • Monster Black Bear in Cali – No Hibernation
  • Not Grabbing the Low Hanging Fruit
  • 3 Season with a Houndsman
  • Breaking Bread, In Camp, Undercover
  • Getting into their Comfort Zone
  • Convicted Felony with a Firearm, Among Many other Charges
  • Wild Justice Started Just After, Hard to Go Undercover
  • Mourning the Loss of Ability to Go UC
  • That’s My Bear
  • How Long Do You Work a Case?
  • MET was Built Shortly Thereafter
  • Excited More Than Normal
  • Easter Egg Search Warrant
  • The Bragging was All True
  • Park Rangers
  • The Giant Sequoias and the Sherman Tree

043 Dennis Amsden – Vermont Fish and Wildlife Game Warden

Dennis Amsden was a Lieutenant and Game Warden with the Vermont Fish and Wildlife Service.  Dennis served with the Vermont Fish and Wildlife for 20 years and was involved in many cases over the years, from the high profile media cases to the everyday poaching incident. He shares with us his journey over his career, shares details about several memorable investigations, and hints on where he’d like to go in retirement.

Our Sponsors:

Thin Green Line Podcast

Copper Pig Brewery

Hunt of a Lifetime

Maine’s Operation Game Thief

NH Wildlife Heritage

International Wildlife Crime Stoppers

Here’s What We Discuss:

  • Operation Game Thief – Stealing Video Games
  • From a Family Not into Outdoor Sporting
  • A Subscription to Outdoor Life
  • Moving to Dixie When Retirement Comes
  • Trouble Over Enthusiasm
  • I Hope Glen Lucas is Listening
  • Nobody Becomes a Game Warden for Paperwork
  • Greater St Johnsbury Area
  • Seeing All the Warden’s Work as a Supervisor
  • First Memorable Case
  • Video Tape Date Stamps
  • A Warrant and Experienced Wardens
  • Other Criminal Activities Overlap Poaching
  • 5lbs of Marijuana
  • Leaving a Decoy Out Overnight
  • Another Case on Lake Champlain
  • Walleye and Ducks – Game Laws and Keeping Up
  • High Profile Case – Investigating a Shooting
  • An ATV and Voices
  • Less and Less Poaching Being Handing Down by Generation
  • You Get More Info By Making Friends, First Name Basis
  • A Rich Man from Experience
  • It’s Not all Tickets and Handcuffs
  • 3am Wake Ups, Spouses, Kids
  • Search and Rescue and Training 

042 Nancy Foley – Former Division Chief California Department of Fish and Game

Chief Nancy Foley spent 25 years in various capacities within the Law Enforcement Division. She was instrumental in raising the profile of California game wardens by securing better and more clearly marked patrol vehicles, developing the K-9 program and helping get National Geographic Channel’s Wild Justice, a show featuring California game wardens, to the airwaves. Foley was selected as the Western Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies’ (WAFWA) Professional of the Year in 2011.

Thin Green Line Podcast

Copper Pig Brewery

Hunt of a Lifetime

Maine’s Operation Game Thief

NH Wildlife Heritage

International Wildlife Crime Stoppers

  • Badge #1
  • International Reach
  • Stopping Wildlife Trafficking
  • The NET Team – West Coast
  • It’s a Team Effort
  • Each Division Has a Piece of the Puzzle to Solve the Crime
  • Dedicated Helicopter Teams
  • Cameras Are a Positive Impact – Wild Justice Positive
  • Influences of North Woods Law
  • Applications for Game Warden’s Jobs Thru the Roof
  • It’s a Draw on the Officers – Burn Out, It’s Tough
  • A Case of Complications – After Search Warrant Issued
  • A Hiking Incident on Mt Whitney
  • A Game Warden Truck
  • You Don’t Meet the Applicant Requirement – Wait We Made a Mistake
  • Hire Process Changed – Hidden Barriers
  • Non-Hunting, Non-Fishing Backgrounds
  • The Wildlife Took Him Out of NYC – Abe
  • Diversity
  • Covert Reptile Investigations
  • Abalone Investigations in California – High $$$ Value
  • Undercover Game Warden Work and Surveillance
  • Follow the Suspect and Abalone Poaching West Coast $200,000
  • Poaching Income Chinatown
  • Can’t Sit in the Car
  • Hundreds of Cases
  • Public Safety Responsibility
  • A Vision of the Game Department – Unfinished Business
  • Get the Ball Rolling – Back Country High Risk Operations
  • Becoming a Foundation Board Member
  • An Endowment, Scholarships, Expediting Funds to those in Need
  • Resource Protection, Taking Care of the Environment Protecting Natural Resources, Water, Habitat

041 Senator Jack Bailey – Striped Bass Regulation Starts in Maryland

Thin Green Line Podcast

Copper Pig Brewery

Hunt of a Lifetime

Maine’s Operation Game Thief

NH Wildlife Heritage

International Wildlife Crime Stoppers

Here’s What We Discuss:

  • Former Game Warden
  • Commercial Fishing Chesapeake Bay and Mountains in the West
  • Striped Bass Emotions Sometimes Trumps Science in Politics
  • Oysters Poached from MD and Sold in Virginia, Boats and Gun Fights 1900s
  • A Striped Bass Spawning Zone and Nursery Early 2000 IWTF
  • Prosecuted Thru DOJ in DC Federal Court Undercover Operation Striped Bass
  • 3 Jurisdictions with Different Requirements
  • Always an Excuse, Under Recording
  • Only 2 Fisherman were Following the Rules
  • $1.7 Million Restitution and Jail Time
  • Sources of Information in Other States
  • Self Recording Requirements Changed
  • This is Just a Fish, You Can’t Be Serious
  • It’s a Crime Against People, not the Fish
  • Harming the Resources
  • East Coast Commercial Fishery – Huge Economic Value
  • Working with Delaware and Sharing Information
  • Always a Risk Between Recreational and Commercial
  • A Game Warden Story
  • Future Legislation

040 Greg Bartles – Maryland DNR – Historian

Today’s Maryland Department of Natural Resources has its roots in the Maryland Oyster Police, which began in 1868 to regulate oyster harvesting on the Chesapeake Bay. Greg Bartles spent most of his career protecting Maryland’s parks and open lands as a natural resources police officer. Now retired, he’s using part of his land to share the story of the state’s conservation efforts.

Thin Green Line Podcast

Copper Pig Brewery

Hunt of a Lifetime

Guidefitter

Maine’s Operation Game Thief

NH Wildlife Heritage

International Wildlife Crime Stoppers

Here’s What We Discuss in this Episode:

  • Western Maryland Hunting and Fishing
  • Natural Resources Fish and Game Officer
  • Working as a Street Officer, but the Woods were calling
  • Oyster Police and Oyster Wars
  • Muddy Rocks
  • Skip Jacks and Drudge Boats
  • 15 Million Bushels in the 1880, and Aquaculture
  • Waterfowl Hunting in the Chesapeake Bay
  • History of the Agency DNR
  • Reproduction of Patches
  • 1865 Oyster Law Changes
  • Hunter Davidson – Steam Powered Boat and a Howitzer
  • Oyster Pirates – Rifles vs Cannons
  • A Violent Time over Oysters
  • If you Want to Catch a Poacher, You’re Gonna Get Shot at
  • Borrowing Gatlin Guns from the Military Academy
  • 1930s Small High Speed Illegal Dredges
  • Bring a Bigger Gun to Win the Fight
  • A Back Breaking Winter Job, German Immigrants,
  • Kidnapped and Slave Labor
  • 1968 Wildlife Officer, 1971 Marine Police Combined
  • 1990s Everyone Got Cars
  • Gordon Barnes
  • The Corporal’s Job
  • Learning to Adapt and Overcome
  • A Boating Accident
  • 13 Drownings
  • Life Jackets Life Jackets Life Jackets
  • Hunter Orange Hunter Orange
  • Rifles for Turkeys
  • Reserve Officers and Lost Hunters
  • Private Collection Turned Museum