075 Heidi Murphy – New Hampshire

Fans of the Animal Planet television series North Woods Law will recognize Sgt. Heidi Murphy, an 18-year veteran Conservation Officer with New Hampshire Fish & Game, and the state’s first and only female CO. She has been an active member of the Advanced Search and Rescue Team, instructs courses for Fish and Game’s Becoming an Outdoors-Woman program, and was awarded the Shikar-Safari International Wildlife Officer of the Year in 2015. In this episode, Heidi and Wayne discuss some of her more memorable cases, what drew her to a career in wildlife management, and her hopes to attract more women to the profession.

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Here’s what we discuss:

  • 18 years on duty
  • Only female officer on staff
  • Don’t need to fit a “box” to become a game warden
  • Attracting more women into the profession
  • Need to be passionate about job
  • Moving from Lieutenant to Sergeant
  • A boat at dawn is a pretty nice office
  • Work smarter
  • Busy Search & Rescue area
  • Bringing loved ones home
  • Sending rescuers into danger
  • Twenty-six hour days
  • Turkey magnet
  • Sometimes you get lucky
  • A memorable moose case
  • Filming North Woods Law
  • Inspiring the next generations of game wardens
  • Becoming an Outdoors-Woman
  • Teachers make good game wardens – and vice versa
  • Following clues to get to the facts
  • On the spot necropsies
  • Variety is the greatest part of the job
  • Networking with game wardens from other states
  • Keeping conservation relevant

Credits

Hosts: Wayne Saunders and John Nores

Producer: Jay Ammann

Social Media: Stacey DesRoches

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073 Scott Gray – Reformed Poacher

Wayne, Lt. Jim Kneeland, and reformed poacher Scott Gray gather to discuss Scott’s poaching scheme that started in the 1990s. He took poaching to a new level. He practiced at home to see how how quiet he could make his weapons, buried a freezer in his shed, and believe it or not, once took the warden’s entry test. Wayne discusses with Scott and Lt. Kneeland, Scott’s tactics, preparation, and to what extent he took his illegal craft, and how it all changed one day.

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“A Cowboy in the Woods” Book

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070 Jeff Baile – Illinois Part One

Jeff Baile is a retired conservation police officer and instructor in Illinois. He started out as a patrol officer in 1976, and moved to become a conservation police officer in 1979. Additionally, Jeff has worked as an instructor in his self-developed interview and interrogation course across the country. Jeff is a Certified Forensic Interviewer, and a member of the International Association of Interviewers. It is estimated he extratected over 7000 confessions over the course of his career. In this episode, Jeff speaks on his interviewing techniques, best stories, and more.

Our Sponsors: 

Thin Green Line Podcast

Sovereign Sportsman Solutions

“A Cowboy in the Woods” Book

Hunt of a Lifetime

Maine’s Operation Game Thief

Wildlife Heritage Foundation of NH

International Wildlife Crime Stoppers

Here’s What We Discuss:

  • Conservation police
  • Getting into a niche
  • What do you need to do in interrogation 
  • Mobile training unit
  • Body language and lie detection are two different animals
  • Interview before interrogation
  • Gather facts
  • Retell the story
  • Truth never changes
  • Getting good at interviews
  • Suppressing “we” 
  • Conservation – specific course
  • Use both police and conservation examples
  • Interrogating our kids

068 The Colebrook Murders Part IV – Featuring Counselor Paula Booth

Counselor Paula Booth has been working with law enforcement officers and other clients for over 35 years with the state of New Hampshire. Her unique knowledge of critical incidents and trauma response has made her a valuable asset to many agencies. She is also the director for the New Hampshire Employee Assistant Program. Paula has a masters degree in clinical social work from Boston University, is a member of the National Academy of Certified Social Workers, and is nationally certified as an employee assistance professional. Additionally, she has served as the president of the Grant State employee assistant program. Paula works on the governor and attorney general’s commission on domestic violence, and is an advisor to the state government’s decision makers. Her lectures at conferences, community events, and state sponsored events are well renowned. To Wayne, Paula Booth was his counselor after the critical incident that took place in Colebook in which he was shot.

Our Sponsors: 

Thin Green Line Podcast

Sovereign Sportsman Solutions

“A Cowboy in the Woods” Book

Hunt of a Lifetime

Maine’s Operation Game Thief

Wildlife Heritage Foundation of NH

International Wildlife Crime Stoppers

Here’s What We Discuss:

  • Introduction to Paula Booth
  • Counseling is very different in today’s world
  • Wayne’s breaking point
  • Counseling is for everyone
  • Everyone has a critical incident in their life
  • Healthy people get help
  • Education on counseling to law enforcement
  • We ask for help all the time, why not this?
  • Affects officers, family members, peers
  • Academy program: stress management in law enforcement
  • Traumatic experience from those that were on vacation
  • Critical incident tools
  • Simple, briefs directives
  • Eat something simple
  • Don’t fill the silence
  • Look into programs
  • Supervisors and peers watch you
  • Don’t use a cookie cutter approach
  • Connection is important
  • I’ve got the best job in the world
  • Make it palatable
  • If I didn’t have counseling, I wouldn’t have finished my career
  • Horrible week for New Hampshire
  • Approach it from a problem solving perspective
  • Make the appointment, you can always cancel it
  • Give and take
  • Uniform represents so much
  • Partners and supporters take the journey too

067 The Colebrook Murders Part III – Featuring Kevin Jordan

Colonel Kevin Jordan has worked for the New Hampshire Department of Fish and Game for over 20 years. After the Colebrook Murders, he became a critical incident specialist. In this episode, Wayne discusses the Colebrook Murders with Colonel Jordan and how each of them experienced the situation.  

Our Sponsors: 

Thin Green Line Podcast

Sovereign Sportsman Solutions

“A Cowboy in the Woods” Book

Hunt of a Lifetime

Maine’s Operation Game Thief

Wildlife Heritage Foundation of NH

International Wildlife Crime Stoppers

Here’s What We Discuss:

  • Field day in Quebec
  • Weren’t aware two were murdered
  • 5 crime scenes, many different units
  • Couldn’t talk on the radio, too much chatter
  • I could hear Wayne screaming
  • Went to grab two deer rifles, raced to confront
  • John had his fingers embedded in my dash as I went 100 mph
  • I was livid he shot you, I wanted to kill him
  • The troopers had a look about them
  • Dispatchers were crying on the radio
  • He went home to change and shave
  • Laying across the dash, looked like he committed suicide
  • Both shoot at the same time; Drega wearing campaign hat
  • If you engage him, you’ll have to kill him
  • I know what type of guy I am now
  • You can train someone, but you don’t know how they’ll react in fight or flight
  • He was on the bank; changed our plan
  • 98 shots fired
  • Drega was dead 
  • I decided I needed a cigarette
  • Both sides of the road were lined with cruisers
  • I thought I was gonna get fired
  • His house had bombs in it
  • Ran to the bathroom and threw up
  • Some will defend Drega; there will be funerals
  • Went to visit Wayne in a packed cruiser
  • Cheers when Wayne came back; brought to tears
  • Ordered to go to counseling
  • New equipment after the event

066 The Colebrook Murders Part II: My Badge Saved My Life

In this episode our two hosts become an interviewer and an interviewee. In 1997, a rogue gunman began a violent rampage in the town of Colebrook. One of the responding officers, Warden Wayne Saunders of New Hampshire was injured in an attempt to apprehend the subject. The badge he wore on that day deflected the bullet shot by the suspect and saved his life. In this episode Wayne tells his personal account of that day and how it affected his life.

Our Sponsors: 

Thin Green Line Podcast

Sovereign Sportsman Solutions

“A Cowboy in the Woods” Book

Hunt of a Lifetime

Maine’s Operation Game Thief

Wildlife Heritage Foundation of NH

International Wildlife Crime Stoppers

Here’s What We Discuss:

  • Episode dedicated to Senior Corporal Jeff Neal of Hope, Arkansas
  • Dedicated to Scott Phillips and Leslie Lord, New Hampshire State Police
  • Survived a critical incident in a small town
  • A regular day with a field day the next day
  • Report of a stolen cruiser, possibly by a kid
  • “Turn off your blue lights”
  • Jurisdictional issues in mind
  • Dust hanging under a bridge pass
  • Man with a campaign hat pointing a gun 15 yards away
  • Cover and concealment
  • Everything was in slow motion, yelled at people in a restaurant to leave 
  • Backed up slow, then fast into a tree
  • I didn’t know what was going on
  • Center of the badge was shot off
  • Ricochet of the 7 rounds
  • Don’t my boots; sorry I wrecked the cruiser
  • Shredded my bicep, scarred to this day
  • Found out what happened from the news
  • Staying in the fight even when injured
  • From the hospital to funerals 
  • Brothers holding me up
  • Improving communication, switched rifles
  • New York response team
  • It takes a horrible incident for improvement
  • The only woman that made me cry: physical therapist breaking down scar tissue
  • Negative comments made me transfer
  • Critical incident fallout; learning experience
  • Worse for your partner to get shot than to be the victim
  • Physical and mental pain
  • I always wanted to be the cowboy in the woods, no one would take that for me
  • Brought game wardens to state police with shooting pay support
  • We’re always on duty
  • More tools available now
  • Pack of wardens
  • Usually not next to cruiser
  • People hide and hide things in the woods
  • Educate the public on what we go through

065 The Colebrook Murders Part I – Ft. Richard Adams Carey

Richard Carey is the author of the book “In That Evil Day” in which he discusses the events of the violent 1997 shooting in Colebrook, New Hampshire in which Wayne Sanders was shot. Richard grew up in Connecticut and attended Harvard. He moved around the country while writing various books that are acclaimed by The New York Times, Alaska Magazine, and more. In this interview, Carry explains his background, research for the book, the community around Colebrook, and much more.

Our Sponsors: 

Thin Green Line Podcast

Sovereign Sportsman Solutions

“A Cowboy in the Woods” Book

Hunt of a Lifetime

Maine’s Operation Game Thief

Wildlife Heritage Foundation of NH

International Wildlife Crime Stoppers

Here’s What We Discuss:

  • The Colebrook Murders
  • Putting the puzzle pieces together
  • Not enough exposure on the event
  • Listings in a telephone book
  • Went about the book stupidly
  • Battle between burying the incident and opening up
  • Expected to “suck it up” after incidents
  • Challenge: freedom of information
  • Dissecting the documents; generosity of agencies
  • No sense of competition in law enforcement
  • Not a typical true crime book
  • Mindset of those in the community
  • Flirtations with militia groups
  • National problem with little reporting
  • Breakdown of the incident
  • The good out of the incident
  • Civilian heroes 
  • Outsider looking in to insider looking in
  • Book title

058 The Case of Kate Matrosova Part V – The Conclusion

Kate Matrosova was a highly experienced hiker from Southern Siberia, Russia. She came to America on a student visa and successfully graduated with a masters degree in Financial Engineering. Though she worked for many firms on Wall Street, she also had a passion for the outdoors. She had a passion for climbing big mountains such as Kilimanjaro and McKinley, and was an active marathon runner. At 32 years old, she hiked the Presidential Mountain Range of the White Mountains in New Hampshire carrying light gear for a day hike. Unfortunately, she never made it out alive. The weather conditions reached -85F and 141 MPH winds. Rescue teams attempted to reach her after she activated her communications device, but to no avail. Kate Matrosova was discovered a day later. 

Ty Gagne is the CEO of Primex, a public entity risk pool based in New Hampshire, and is also a certified wilderness first responder. He wrote the book Where You’ll Find Me about Kate’s experiences and those who were a part of her recovery. In this podcast, he interviewed Wayne and asked him about his experiences as a supervisor over the search and rescue mission for Kate.

Brett Fitzgerald is a member of the search and rescue team that located and recovered Kate Matrosova. He is an experienced climber and outdoorsman who takes clients up the White Mountains. 

Our Sponsors:

Thin Green Line Podcast

Hunt of a Lifetime

Maine’s Operation Game Thief

NH Wildlife Heritage

International Wildlife Crime Stoppers

Here’s What We Discuss:

  • Ty Gagne’s new book
  • High quality volunteers in NH
  • Embrace being a hero
  • Continuation of Wayne’s interview
  • Hasty team was important; other teams covered beacons
  • Covered lots of ground
  • Brett Fitzgerald interview
  • Out skiing during the day before the rescue
  • Telling clients “there is a 0% chance of reaching the summit today”
  • Had the kits ready to go
  • We weren’t sure if we could find her; she could be anywhere
  • Wind picked us off the ground
  • Kate was frozen solid
  • Can’t think of her as a human; need to get the load down
  • Felt like you were drowning 
  • Continuation of Wayne’s interview
  • Hard to communicate above treeline
  • Work to do after recovery
  • Inform next of kin
  • Accomplishments of Kate: calls from reporters from New York
  • Many rescues can be prevented
  • Preparation: more research, investigation, and paying attention to the weather
  • There’s a reason trees don’t grow up there
  • I got it in my calendar, I’m going to hike
  • Flexibility and knowledge is key
  • The finding of Kate’s mountaineering axe
  • Dedication to all search and rescue volunteers

057 The Case of Kate Matrosova Part IV Featuring Guest Interviewer Ty Gagne

Kate Matrosova was a highly experienced hiker from Southern Siberia, Russia. She came to America on a student visa and successfully graduated with a masters degree in Financial Engineering. Though she worked for many firms on Wall Street, she also had a passion for the outdoors. She had a passion for climbing big mountains such as Kilimanjaro and McKinley, and was an active marathon runner. At 32 years old, she hiked the Presidential Mountain Range of the White Mountains in New Hampshire carrying light hear for a day hike. Unfortunately, she never made it out alive. The weather conditions reached -85F and 141 MPH winds. Rescue teams attempted to reach her after she activated her communications device, but to no avail. Kate Matrosova was discovered a day later.

Ty Gagne is the CEO of Primex, a public entity risk pool based in New Hampshire, and is also a certified wilderness first responder. He wrote the book Where You’ll Find Me about Kate’s experiences and those who were a part of her recovery. In this podcast, he interviewed Wayne and asked him about his experiences as a supervisor over the search and rescue mission for Kate.

Lieutenant Mark Ober is the Lieutenant for District 1 with the New Hampshire Fish and Game. He frequently responds to hikers in distress and develops search and rescue missions to find them. He is also a member of the New Hampshire Fish and Game Dive Team. In this episode, he discusses the mission to find Kate, the difficulties surrounding it, and his role as a supervisor.

Our Sponsors:

Thin Green Line Podcast

Hunt of a Lifetime

Maine’s Operation Game Thief

NH Wildlife Heritage

International Wildlife Crime Stoppers

Here’s What We Discuss:

  • Guest interviewer: Ty Gagne
  • The best learning is from the ground up
  • The game warden is in charge of the search and rescue
  • Pass on shortcuts
  • Own up to your decisions
  • Wind is a huge factor
  • Dragging my feet based on my instincts
  • Don’t call me at night – I don’t sleep
  • Continuation of interview with Mark Ober
  • Constantly on the phone
  • Ordered a command post
  • 5am to 8am is peak prepare time
  • Many acronyms in search and rescues
  • Would have never reached Kate safely
  • Intent is key
  • Everything was in her pack, not blown away
  • Sunny day, whiteout on the mountain peaks
  • There’s more people like Kate
  • I made mistakes that other people made
  • Continuation of Wayne’s interview
  • No intention of going home
  • Command posts were rocking from the wind
  • Great relationships with local departments
  • It’s easy to look at a map and make assignments
  • Even highly skilled people can get in trouble

Credits

Hosts: Wayne Saunders and John Nores

Producer: Jay Ammann

Social Media/Marketing: Morgan Day