113 Ian Obenshain & Brad Bailey – Big Boy: The Stolen Hunt

In the summer of 2009, Ian Obenshain and Brad Bailey began observing a colossal white-tailed buck feeding in an Ohio field. The friends had permission to hunt the area and immediately started documenting the huge animal’s growth, with the ultimate goal of Brad filming Ian harvesting ‘Big Boy’ during the fall archery season. Anticipation, however, soon turned to disappointment when the trophy buck suddenly disappeared – and then the story turned even stranger.

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Here’s what we discuss:

  • Origin of the name ‘Big Boy’
  • Ian first spotted the buck in a soybean field near a highway
  • “Have you shown this to anybody?”
  • Big Boy was a world class buck
  • The pursuit and subsequent events brought the two friends closer
  • Brad had guiding experience
  • Placing trail cameras and trying to predict the animal’s behavior
  • Many days were spent planning and scouting
  • The pair planned to film the hunt
  • Big Boy disappeared, but the hunters hoped to see him again
  • “I think it’s in the booth behind you.”
  • A plaque claimed the buck was a Kentucky state record
  • There was no doubt the buck had been poached
  • Hundreds of photos and videos provided evidence of the buck’s origins
  • The loss was a tough pill to swallow
  • Hunting a trophy animal is a huge commitment
  • It was gratifying to see how seriously law enforcement approached the case

Credits

Hosts: Wayne Saunders and John Nores

Producer: Jay Ammann

Art & Design: Ashley Hannett

Research / Content Coordinator: Stacey DesRoches

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112 Chris Gilkey – Ohio Division of Wildlife

From a cozy front porch in Utah, Wayne talks with Ohio Wildlife Officer and K9 handler Chris Gilkey. Born, raised – and now based – in the Ohio foothills of the Appalachian Mountains, Officer Gilkey shares the remarkable story of Big Boy, the largest typical white-tailed buck taken in North America in 2009 – and for one poacher, more ‘bucks’ than he counted on.

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Here’s what we discuss:

  • Missed connections and an epic fishing trip
  • Fifteen minutes from West Virginia
  • Ohio is a destination for white-tailed deer hunters – but also for poachers
  • Ethical hunters spotted a huge buck in the summer of 2009 and planned to hunt it in the fall
  • Wanted Officer Gilkey to be involved
  • “Big Boy” disappeared from trail cams shortly before the season
  • Months later, Big Boy is on display at an expo
  • Poacher claimed the trophy buck was taken in Kentucky
  • Stuck to his story but eventually confessed, hoping to avoid prison
  • Thirteen prior hunting convictions
  • Poacher forfeited his bow, received fines, a lifetime hunting ban and…
  • A $23,572.05 fine under Ohio’s Trophy Restitution Law
  • Received Ohio Bow Hunter Officer of the Year award for this case
  • Hunters who provided the information deserved an award
  • Report wildlife crime in all 50 states and Canada through wildlifecrimestoppers.org

Credits

Hosts: Wayne Saunders and John Nores

Producer: Jay Ammann

Art & Design: Ashley Hannett

Research / Content Coordinator: Stacey DesRoches

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079 Chad Eyler – PA Game Commission: Command Staff

In our final installment from the PA Game Commission, Wayne talks with PGC Special Permits Division chief Chad Eyler. Besides being an administrator for Pennsylvania’s Operation Game Thief program and the architect of one of the most successful wildlife crime reporting lines in the US, he also has the unique perspective of having worked for all three state conservation agencies. In this episode, Chad explains the formation, structure, and funding of the agency, the Deputy Game Warden program, and much more.

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“A Cowboy in the Woods” Book

Hunt of a Lifetime

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Here’s what we discuss:

  • A good game warden story
  • Leader in wildlife forensics
  • Forensics skills can apply to all aspects of the job
  • Formation of the Game Commission
  • Refuges and ranges
  • Game lands help fund the agency
  • Low-cost hunting and trapping licenses
  • Explaining the Deputy Warden program
  • Almost a hobby
  • Hundreds of thousands of hunters
  • Keeping the agency moving forward
  • Issued a typewriter and a revolver
  • Refocusing priorities and adapting with the times
  • “It literally takes my breath away”

Credits

Hosts: Wayne Saunders and John Nores

Producer: Jay Ammann

Content Coordinator: Stacey DesRoches

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076 BRAD DANNEFAERD – NEW ZEALAND

The son of a hunting and fishing store owner, and an avid outdoorsman himself, Brad Dannefaerd worked with New Zealand Fisheries for nearly 20 years before retiring to found his own company. During his long and colorful career, he has worked alongside agencies in Australia, Canada and the United States, and literally written the book on defensive tactics and training for the New Zealand Ministry of Fisheries. Today, his company trains and equips everyone from law enforcement to librarians, teaching “people who deal with people” how to manage interactions safely and effectively.

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Here’s what we discuss:

  • One big international family
  • An introduction to New Zealand
  • The traditional haka
  • All NZ agencies under one jurisdiction
  • Type of offender has changed
  • We had to get a lot smarter
  • More authority than police
  • Working with Customs agencies
  • Building intelligence to make a larger case
  • Targeting the high-level offender
  • Only two licenses required
  • Still able to enforce Fish & Game laws
  • NZ police do not carry firearms
  • Enforcement by consent
  • Never lost a fisheries officer
  • Different style of enforcement
  • Bright blue uniforms
  • Non-escalation vs. de-escalation
  • Founding CERT (Compliance, Enforcement & Regulatory Training)
  • NZ Police purchased CERT technical comms package
  • Never met a game warden I didn’t like
  • Game wardens are a tight knit community
  • Developing contacts worldwide

Credits

Hosts: Wayne Saunders and John Nores

Producer: Jay Ammann

Content Coordinator: Stacey DesRoches

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075 Heidi Murphy – New Hampshire

Fans of the Animal Planet television series North Woods Law will recognize Sgt. Heidi Murphy, an 18-year veteran Conservation Officer with New Hampshire Fish & Game, and the state’s first and only female CO. She has been an active member of the Advanced Search and Rescue Team, instructs courses for Fish and Game’s Becoming an Outdoors-Woman program, and was awarded the Shikar-Safari International Wildlife Officer of the Year in 2015. In this episode, Heidi and Wayne discuss some of her more memorable cases, what drew her to a career in wildlife management, and her hopes to attract more women to the profession.

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Sovereign Sportsman Solutions

“A Cowboy in the Woods” Book

Hunt of a Lifetime

Maine’s Operation Game Thief

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Here’s what we discuss:

  • 18 years on duty
  • Only female officer on staff
  • Don’t need to fit a “box” to become a game warden
  • Attracting more women into the profession
  • Need to be passionate about job
  • Moving from Lieutenant to Sergeant
  • A boat at dawn is a pretty nice office
  • Work smarter
  • Busy Search & Rescue area
  • Bringing loved ones home
  • Sending rescuers into danger
  • Twenty-six hour days
  • Turkey magnet
  • Sometimes you get lucky
  • A memorable moose case
  • Filming North Woods Law
  • Inspiring the next generations of game wardens
  • Becoming an Outdoors-Woman
  • Teachers make good game wardens – and vice versa
  • Following clues to get to the facts
  • On the spot necropsies
  • Variety is the greatest part of the job
  • Networking with game wardens from other states
  • Keeping conservation relevant

Credits

Hosts: Wayne Saunders and John Nores

Producer: Jay Ammann

Social Media: Stacey DesRoches

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074 The Ellises – Father & Son Game Wardens

Lee Ellis knew he wanted to be a South Carolina game warden from the time he was a teenager. His son Hunter considered a few different occupations before realizing his destiny was in his father’s footsteps. Listen as they discuss their respective career paths, the unique benefits and challenges of growing up in a game warden family, and the changes they’ve each seen through the years. They may be Captain and Officer, but at the end of the day, they’re family. 

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Here’s what we discuss:

  • Not the first South Carolina father/son warden team
  • Hunter always wanted to be a game warden… sort of
  • Not a lot of dads can say they work with their kids
  • Perseverance paid off for Lee
  • The Swiss army knife of law enforcement
  • Shrimp baiting
  • It’s all about preserving nature
  • Education and enforcement go hand in hand
  • Take One Make One program
  • Non-traditional law enforcement role; it’s a lifestyle, not a job
  • Family support is essential
  • Cat and mouse
  • Everyone knows the game warden
  • Adapt using technology, but keep your roots
  • How to catch an alligator
  • President of International Wildlife Crimestoppers
  • Hosting the 2021 IWC conference
  • Telling wardens’ stories is key
  • Promoting positive interactions
  • Encouraging the next generation

073 Scott Gray – Reformed Poacher

Wayne, Lt. Jim Kneeland, and reformed poacher Scott Gray gather to discuss Scott’s poaching scheme that started in the 1990s. He took poaching to a new level. He practiced at home to see how how quiet he could make his weapons, buried a freezer in his shed, and believe it or not, once took the warden’s entry test. Wayne discusses with Scott and Lt. Kneeland, Scott’s tactics, preparation, and to what extent he took his illegal craft, and how it all changed one day.

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“A Cowboy in the Woods” Book

Hunt of a Lifetime

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072 Benny Richards – Texas

Benny Richards is a former Game Warden for Hunt County, Texas. Richards worked for over 25 years for the Texas Department of Parks and Wildlife, and is well known for his appearances on “Lone Star Law”. During his time as a warden, he earned accomplishments such as the Texas Parks and Wildlife Officer of the Year (2015) and the Shikar-Safari International Wildlife Officer of the year award. In this episode, Wayne interviews Benny on his role as a Texas warden and the stories of “Lone Star Law”.

Our Sponsors: 

Thin Green Line Podcast

Sovereign Sportsman Solutions

“A Cowboy in the Woods” Book

Hunt of a Lifetime

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International Wildlife Crime Stoppers

Here’s What We Discuss:

  • “Tales of a Texas Game Warden” by Benny Richards
  • Virtual book signing: December 2nd at 7:00pm
  • Recently retired
  • Everything is real
  • New season of Lone Star Law is coming
  • Game warden and peace officer
  • First interaction with a game warden
  • Different trails
  • Cocaine in the taxi cab
  • Dirty deeds under the cover of dark
  • Trip to jail makes them pass out
  • Phones change everything
  • Moving the bucket
  • Watch to get evidence
  • Wardens answer more than just outdoor calls
  • Housing development
  • Landowner permission
  • Diverse environment 
  • Upcoming children’s book
  • Moose antler

071 Jeff Baile – Illinois Part II

Jeff Baile is a retired conservation police officer and instructor in Illinois. He started out as a patrol officer in 1976, and moved to become a conservation police officer in 1979. Additionally, Jeff has worked as an instructor in his self-developed interview and interrogation course across the country. Jeff is a Certified Forensic Interviewer, and a member of the International Association of Interviewers. It is estimated he extratected over 7000 confessions over the course of his career. In this episode, Jeff speaks on his interviewing techniques, best stories, and more.

Our Sponsors: 

Thin Green Line Podcast

Sovereign Sportsman Solutions

“A Cowboy in the Woods” Book

Hunt of a Lifetime

Maine’s Operation Game Thief

Wildlife Heritage Foundation of NH

International Wildlife Crime Stoppers

Here’s What We Discuss:

  • There’s no end to it, stick new stuff in
  • Compliance increase after communication skills increases
  • Catfish case
  • Killed 24,000 fish, 600 bullfrogs
  • Boat accident
  • Published poaching 
  • Hotel deer
  • 25 illegal racoons 
  • The Beagle 
  • Making a case out of an interview
  • A person can only control their body language for so long
  • Everyone can learn it
  • A dead eagle 
  • Columbo style
  • Baile & Associates courses
  • Administrative and teacher classes
  • Different prongs