In this National Police Week memorial episode, Wayne sits down with two men who lived through an unimaginable moment when a training exercise turned into a fight for survival. Retired Indiana DNR Lieutenant Colonel Terry Hyndman and First Sgt. Tom Jahn revisit the day they lost their friend and teammate, First Sgt. Karl Kelley, in a swift water incident that still shapes them decades later. It’s a difficult listen at times – but an important one – and a reminder of what service and brotherhood truly mean.
“It is not how these officers died that made them heroes; it is how they lived.” ~ National Law Enforcement Memorial, Washington, DC
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Here’s what we discuss:
- Why Warden’s Watch dedicates a yearly episode to the fallen during Police Week
- Remembering Karl Kelley and the legacy he left behind
- “How do you ever repay a debt so great?”
- The early days of Indiana’s swift water rescue program
- “We were wet behind the ears.”
- Building a nationally respected training program from the ground up
- What low-head dams are, and why they’re called “drowning machines.”
- The deceptive danger: “It looks calm… but it’s a washing machine underneath.”
- Training for worst-case scenarios in real-world environments
- The setup at Williams Dam – a powerful and unpredictable system
- The two-boat tether rescue technique explained
- When everything goes wrong in seconds
- Losing engine power and being pulled toward the dam
- “We knew we were in trouble.”
- First Sgt. Kelley moving in without hesitation to save his teammates
- Multiple rescue attempts before the final, fatal approach
- “Just 20 feet in front of us, I remember his boat going over.”
- Two boats and four officers trapped in the boil
- “We fought to survive for 20 minutes in that dam.”
- The relentless force of the dam, flipping boats, tearing equipment apart
- Fighting to stay alive in conditions you cannot control
- Terry’s perspective from shore and the race to respond
- The last-ditch move: turning a boat into a “sea anchor.”
- The moment the current finally gives way and releases them
- Despite the best gear and training, “those dams don’t care.”
- Karl passes away days later
- Survivor’s guilt: “He died for me… what do you do with that?”
- “I didn’t want to survive after that. I didn’t think I could go on.”
- Finding purpose and honoring sacrifice after tragedy
- How shared trauma connects officers across time and distance
- Supporting another officer years later who lived the same nightmare
- “If you’ve walked in those shoes… you become their light.”
- Who Karl was – mentor, leader, and quiet influence
- “You don’t always have to swing for the fence” – leadership advice that stuck
- A devoted family man who valued life beyond the job
- The moment at the funeral – “Don’t quit.”
- Choosing to carry on and honour the sacrifice
- “We can’t repay it… but we can choose to live better. We choose to work better, do better.”
Credits
Hosts: Wayne Saunders and John Nores
Producer: Jay Ammann
Warden’s Watch logo & Design: Ashley Hannett
Research / Content Coordinator: Stacey DesRoches
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